| Vision VS Android 17 | |
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| Season 6, Episode 5 | |
Vital statistics
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| Air date | December 25, 2018 |
| Written by | TheMetallicBlur |
| Directed by | TheMetallicBlur |
Episode guide
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| Previous | Next |
| Will Stronghold VS Izuku Midoriya | Donatello VS Bentley |
Description[]
Marvel Comics VS Dragon Ball Z. These machines were meant to kill the heroes, but not only did the join the good guys, but became some of the most human of them as well. Will Vision reduce this Android to 0? Will the Synthezoid not be dense enough to withstand Lapis? Stay tuned!
Interlude[]
(*Cues: Wiz and Boomstick - Brandon Yates*)
Wiz: Machines made to kill are usually meant to be soulless, callous, murderers with no sense of remorse.
Boomstick: And they're even deadlier when they can command energy.
Wiz: But while most machines tend to be soulless killers, others can tend to have emotion and turn out to be more human than humans themselves.
Boomstick: Like with Vision, the density-shifting synthezoid of Ultron.
Wiz: And Android 17, the half-machine fighter of Dr. Gero.
Boomstick: He's Wiz and I'm Boomstick.
Wiz: And it's our job to analyze their weapons, armor, and skills to find out who would win a death battle.
Vision[]
(*Cues: Ant Man's Battle Theme (Vision's Body) - Marvel: Future Fight*)
Wiz: Ultron is easily one of the most cold and calculating enemy of the Avengers. He's assimilated the Phalanx and used them to take over the Kree Empire, defeated the time-travelling warlord Kang's army of superheroes and brought the multiverse to the brink of destruction as a result, and an alternate version of him even became the All-Father of Asgard itself.
Boomstick: But while he's incredibly deadly, his creations are certainly lethal.
Wiz: Thanks to the problems he inherited from his maker, Hank Pym, Ultron was set to rule the world. But to get rid of any and all resistance, he needed to create a machine that destroy all opposition.
Boomstick: He kidnapped Professor Phineas T. Horton, the creator of the Human Torch. Wait, hold on Wiz. I thought the Human Torch was a being who controls fire and wasn't created.
Wiz: The Fantastic Four member wasn't, but in this case, we're talking about the android.
Boomstick: Oh, that makes sense. Anyways, Ultron created his own android and used the Human Torch as a vehicle of vengeance against the greatest resistance,The Avengers.
Wiz: Ultron had Horton color the android red and alter its Horton Cells, thus creating the Vision.
Boomstick: Vision? What kind of robot name is Vision? What about something more lethal?
Wiz: Well, Vision's name comes from the phrase "a vision of the death of the Avengers."
Boomstick: Who knew robots were so confusing?
Wiz: It's science, Boomstick. Of course it'll confuse you.
Boomstick: Ultron realized that Vision's memories of the Torch weren't erased, so he killed Horton, which angered Vision, so he went to attack before being subdued.
Wiz: He was then given the brain patterns of Simon Willians, more commonly known as Wonder Man, and was implanted with a control crystal to keep him in check.
Boomstick: And so, he was blindly loyal to Ultron and did battle with the Avengers.
Wiz: But it seems that control crystal wasn't enough. After being moved by the Avenger's plight, Vision betrayed his programming and helped the Avengers defeat his master. And after a test from Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor, Vision became an Avenger
(*Cues: Vision - Avengers: Age of Ultron*)
Boomstick: Vision's certainly got the strength to be an Avenger. He's got superhuman strength, speed, and durability as well as several robotic features.
Wiz: Vision possesses a supercomputer brain which lets him interact with other computer systems, giving him control over different types technology.
Boomstick: Thanks to his supercomputer brain, he recreated his body to made entirely out of nanites.
Wiz: This means that should he be destroyed, Vision can easily repair himself.
Boomstick: He can use holograms to create holographic trench coats or even turn invisible.
Wiz: Vision can adjust his audio recepter to hear the faintest of sounds and has optical scanners to detect life forms and energy sources. He can even make himself sound like a machine or anyone he wants to.
Boomstick: Now let's get to the cooler powers. Thanks to the Horton Cells he has, this means Vision has the ability to shift his density.
Wiz: By doing so, he can increase his density to make himself harder. At maximum density, he weighs about 90 tons. He can also increase the density in his fist to increase his striking power. Vision can also lessen his density to fly, become a glorified bug zapper, and even turn intangible.
Boomstick: He can use his intangiblity to phase through attacks and to harm his foes.
Wiz: By making his hand partially intangible to make it weigh roughly 14.25 grams, Vision can phase through a person's vital organs and cause intense stress. The process is so great that even a being of energy like Wonder Man is incapable of disregarding such agony.
Boomstick: Vision also has the ability to absorb solar radiation using his solar jewel and can fire solar energy beams from his eyes and jewel. Wait a minute? He can fly, has a cape, can control technology, absorb solar radiation, and fire it from his eyes? This uy sounds like a fusion of Ultron and Superman.
Wiz: The temperature for these beams ranges from 500 to 30,000 degrees Fahrenheit. That's over thrice the temperature of the sun.
Boomstick: He's got heat beams that exceed the surface of the sun? He is an Ultron/Superman hybrid.
(*Cues: Army Base 1 - Marvel Heroes*)
Wiz: With so much weapons and powers, Vision has proven his mettle time and time again.
Boomstick: He's strong enough to fly through Sentinels and one-shot Sam Alexander.
Wiz: Sam is tough enough to take a hit from Beta Ray Bill's hammer, Stormbreaker, which was strong enough to destroy a star-dwarfing portal with assistance.
Boomstick: Vision's also strong enough to smash the Grey Gargoyle’s armor, something Carol Danvers nearly broke her wrist in trying to do.
Wiz: Carol was strong enough to clash evenly with the likes of Sentry who has the power of a million exploding suns.
Boomstick: But Wizard! It’s a statement! Therefore, it automatically doesn’t count!
Wiz: Well, this statement has been shown to be true when Sentry was shown a universe of his million exploding suns.
Boomstick: Vision isn't just strong, he's super fast. He's able to dodge Taurus' stellar energy with ease.
Wiz: That’s impressive since the distance between stars is about 5 light years away.
Boomstick: But that’s an overly delayed reaction compared to the time Vision managed to phase before he got hit by Mjolnir.
Wiz: Mjolnir has moved so fast that it outpaced the Silver Surfer. The Silver Surfer is fast enough to cross 500,000 light-years in a short span of time. Assuming it occurred in a minute, this means Vision avoided a projectile moving at 176,359,000,000,000,000,000 miles per hour. That's over 263,222,388,059 times the speed of light.
Boomstick: He's even tough enough to no-sell a blitz from Quicksilver.
Wiz: Quicksilver weighs 175 pounds. And the fastest he's gone is outracing radio waves, which are a form of radiation, which moves at the same speed as light, putting Quicksilver at speeds over 670,000,000 miles per hour. Assuming he was charging at full speeds, this means Vision can no-sell over 58 megatons of force.
Boomstick: But Wizard! You can't use kinetic energy for faster than light feats!
Wiz: Oh? Why not?
Boomstick: Because according to Einstein's theory of Relativity, if you travel faster than light, you'll hit with infinite mass! And that's a no-limits fallacy!
Wiz: But according to the Theory of Relativity, you also require infinite energy to reach the speed of light in the first place, which is where the infinite mass comes from. And Quicksilver clearly does not possess infinite energy.
Boomstick: And besides, compared to what Vision's taken, that was just a love tap.
Wiz: He's tough enough to take a hit from Hercules, the god of strength itself.
Boomstick: Herc is so buff that with a single punch, he one-shot Abomination, who’s able to take hits from She-Hulk, who has defeated Red She-Hulk, and she’s strong enough to destroy a planet in one of her fights, a feat calculated to be Dwarf Star level.
Wiz: He’s also taken hits from Namor when he was powered by the Phoenix Force, which is powerful enough to generate supernovas.
Boomstick: Now that's power. And Vision took that with ease. And with his density increased a thousandfold, he's taken hits from at least 9 Hulks all at once.
Wiz: A single Hulk is strong enough to easily harm Thor, who is tough enough to survive the destruction of a ship the size of a solar system.
Boomstick: How much metal would need to be used to make a ship like that? Imagine if I had all that room. So much room for as much guns as I want. And Vision after taking hits from 9 beings with that level of power just phased em’.
Wiz: Vision possesses encyclopedic knowledge of chess, one of the most strategic games known to man, and has battled many heroes and villains.
Boomstick: He's defeated Captain Marvel and Jane Foster as well as Beast with total ease and battled Swordsman, who was capable of defeating Goliath.
Wiz: He's defeated Black Panther, one of the greatest martial artists ever and defeated Iron Man, who can match Captain America, who fought in World War 2.
Boomstick: But while Vision is awesome, he's still proof that Ultron isn't the greatest inventor. If he increases his density to maximum, he'll be incapable of moving and if he uses his solar energy powers to their fullest, they'll completely drain, leaving him helpless.
Wiz: It's clear that Ultron is like his father, Hank, when it comes to creating robots. But regardless, he may be a fusion between Superman and Ultron, but Vision has proven time and time again that his skill and power are all his own.
Vision: So long as you fight me, this will always be the outcome.
Android 17[]
(*Cues: Dr. Gero and No. 18 Battle - Dragon Ball Z: Supersonic Warriors*)
Wiz: Son Goku has battled many foes in his childhood ranging from Emporer Pilaf to the Crane School and even the forces of King Piccolo. But one of his most influential villains from his childhood to come back was the Red Ribbon Army.
Boomstick: The Red Ribbon Army was created by Dr. Gero to be better than all the Earth's military forces combined. But the Saiyan child Goku clobbered them.
Wiz: Upset that his glorious army was surpassed by a child, Gero held a grudge for years and vowed to destroy Goku. But since his army wasn't enough, he created Androids to defeat him.
Boomstick: While some weren't enough and others weren't canon, Gero did manage to create two lethal androids, one of which was Android 18. But the other was Android 17.
Wiz: However, given that they're part human, they're cyborgs, not androids. 17 and 18 were so ruthless that in an alternate future, these twins ravaged the world and were so unstoppable that Super Saiyan meant nothing to them.
Boomstick: Because of this, Future Trunks traveled to the past to warn the heroes of the dangerous apocalypse that would come.
Wiz: But Trunks wasn't exactly aware of how time travel worked. The universe of Dragon Ball works under Multiverse Theory, stating that traveling to the past can actually cause the future to be an alternate universe.
Boomstick: Oh, come on! I thought we were done with the confusing science!
Wiz: Guess not. Anyways, because of this, 17 and 18 were still in the main timeline. After Gero had a brief fight with the Z-Fighters, he relocated back to his hideout where he was keeping 17 and 18 in stasis.
Boomstick: He later woke them up so they could take down the Z-Fighters. But since 17 wasn't cool with the whole "being in stasis" thing, he destroyed the shut-down remote and killed his creator in cold blood.
Wiz: Afterwards, they decided to kill Son Goku and destroy the world. It seems the present would just repeat the same mistake as the future. Or at least it would have if not for one unprecedented variable.
Boomstick: You mean how Krillin married 18?
Wiz: No. I'm talking about another one of the good doctor's creations: the Bio-Android known as Cell.
Boomstick: Cell was made by Gero to become perfect, and the only way he could do so was by absorbing Androids 17 and 18. Even with several distractions, he finally became perfect.
Wiz: But in his battle with Gohan, 18 was kicked out of Cell, causing him to devolve into being Semi-Perfect. Enraged at losing his perfection, Cell threatened to blow up himself as well as the planet.
Boomstick: Fortunately, Goku intervened and teleported himself and Cell to Other World where he, King Kai, Gregory, and Bubbles died.
Wiz: But not only did they die, but 17 did as well due to being inside Cell. After being resurrected by the Dragon Balls, 17 decided to change his life around and became a park ranger, protecting the animals in it and nature.
Boomstick: He never did get that boat though.
(*Cues: Super Android 13 - Dragon Ball Z: Super Android 13*)
Wiz: As a Red Ribbon cyborg, 17 has exceptional strength, speed, and durability, able to tangle with even the toughest of Super Saiyans.
Boomstick: Like many fighters, 17 can manipulate ki, a form of life energy, as attacks.
Wiz: Unlike most fighters, 17 has a core inside of him that generates an endless amount of ki, giving him infinite energy reserves and stamina.
Boomstick: Meaning he can never get tired. And thanks to being an Android, he's immune to people sensing his ki.
Wiz: Which is likely because the ki he creates isn't organic ki.
Boomstick: Whether it's organic or inorganic, it's still pretty powerful. And with that ki, he can use several powerful attacks.
Wiz: Like his Photon Flash, where he charge an energy in his hand before firing it as an energy wave.
Boomstick: Or his Accel Shot, where he fires several blasts of energy all at once. And thanks to his infinite stamina, he can do it as much as he wants.
Wiz: With kiai, he manipulates the air currents with ki to produce powerful shockwaves that he can fire from his palms.
Boomstick: He even has an attack called Now We're Playing For Keeps, where he palm strikes his opponent's face. Then he punches their stomach and elbows their back before reverse sweep kicking the opponent before kicking them away. Talk about a brutal combo.
Wiz: Well, given its brutal nature, it's a wonder 17 doesn't use this technique much now.
Boomstick: One technique he does use a lot is the Android Barrier, where he creates a green force field of ki to block enemy attacks. And it's twice as tough as 17, meaning it can block attacks from those stronger than him.
Wiz: While several other Androids and even the bio-Android, Cell, can use this technique, 17 has much more proficiency with this technique, able to use it much more ways.
Boomstick: He can spin hsis barrier like a ball and even coat his fist with a barrier to increase his striking power.
Wiz: He can trap others in his barrier and create mutliple barrier layers for extra defense.
Boomstick: And should the time come, he can completely self-destruct himself to create a powerful explosion.
Wiz: Despite not having any flashy or powerful transformations, 17 has proven time and time again that he doesn't need them.
Boomstick: He's strong enough to knock down Super Saiyan Trunks, who is powerful enough to mortally wound King Cold with his ki, and Cold is as strong, if not stronger, than Frieza's final form.
Wiz: In Dragon Ball, ki is dependent on the physical condition of the user. This means for Trunks to mortally wound King Cold, he would need to be able to survive such an attack.
Boomstick: He's even fought on par with a suppressed Super Saiyan Blue Goku and his ki blasts are powerful enough to stagger Toppo, the leader of the Pride Troopers.
Wiz: He's also fast enough to casually deflect bullets with no issue and even match the speed of Super Saiyan Goku.
Boomstick: He's even fast enough to dodge God of Destruction Candidate Toppo's Justice Flash attack.
Wiz: He's tough enough to withstand the gravity of the Pretty Black Heart, which according to Goku, has more gravity than the Gravity Chamber, which at most, has 500 times that of Earth's normal gravity.
Boomstick: He can withstand space-bending punches from the fusion, Anilaza. And his barrier was able to to go through Anilaza's Full Power Energy Ball.
Wiz: Not only that, but he also survived his own self-destruction, which was powerful enough to block out Jiren’s strongest Power Impact.
Boomstick: Jiren’s Power Impact is so strong that it casually one-shot Super Saiyan Berserker Kale, who could straight up walk through Super Saiyan Blue Goku’s Kamehameha. And 17 survived an explosion that could cancel out such power from inside himself.
(*Cues: Android 17's Theme - Dragon Ball Super*)
Wiz: 17 has also had a number of victories under his belt and is super smart when it comes to battle. He was skilled enough to easily fodderize Tien with no issue.
Boomstick: Tien was skilled enough to defeat both Burter and Jeice in a two-on-one fight, and they're some of Frieza's most elite soldiers. But Wizard! We're not allowed to use those feats!
Wiz: Why not?
Boomstick: Because it's filler! So it can't count!
Wiz: Well, it may be filler, but it doesn't contradict the original manga in any way shape or form.
Boomstick: And besides, to be fair, he's far from the strongest fighter 17 has defeated.
Wiz: He's even defeated Piccolo, who was capable of going toe-to-toe with Frieza's second form after fusing with Nail.
Boomstick: And when he entered the Tournament of Power, 17 showed that he certainly hadn't lost his touch. He's defeated Vikal with total ease and stated the reason he took her out first was because he knew the flyers were a problem.
Wiz: He defeated Kakunsa, a member of the Kamikaze Fireballs with the fighting instinct of a wild animal, with total ease, and even played weak just to fool her.
Boomstick: He's trashed Viara, an Android fighter from the 3rd universe, and gone toe-to-toe with Casserale, the cyborg general of the Pride Troopers known for having conquered planets. Hey Wiz, if the Pride Troopers are good guys, why is he in the team if he conquered planets?
Wiz: It's likely that those planets were evil. He was also smart enough to figure Damon's trick, a trick that completely baffled Piccolo, the most combat smart fighter of the 7th universe second only to Master Roshi.
Boomstick: Piccolo was so smart that even as a teenager, he was smart enough to create a counter to the Evil Containment Wave. Evil Containment! Evil Containment! Evil Containment!
Wiz: The Evil Containment Wave is a technique designed for beings such as Piccolo, though it can also work on pure hearted being like Kami. And during the assault of Super Buu, Buu actually absorbed Piccolo.
Boomstick: Whenever Buu absorbs someone, it can change his personality and intelligence based on who he's absorbed for better or worse. In this case, it worked for the better as it gave Buu the combat intelligence necessary to defeat Ultimate Gohan, who previously fodderized him.
Wiz: And in the battle against Anilaza, 17 was smart enough to not only figure out how Anilaza was able to detect him and his teammates, but thanks to his "android instincts", he was smart enough to pinpoint Anilaza's weak point.
Boomstick: Guess Ultra Instinct isn’t the only revolutionary instinct in this tournament. Not only that, but he attacked the Kamikaze Fireballs as they were transforming.
Wiz: How is that a feat of intelligence?
Boomstick: Because Dragon Ball characters never try to interrupt a transformation. No matter how long their opponent will take. Thankfully, 17 has broken away from the stereotype.
Wiz: Well, I guess it does show that 17 isn't willing to let his opponents get an advantage. However, being part man does come with some downsides. While 17's barriers are tough, they have a limit to how much punishment they can take as they have been fractured several times before. Though usually only by powerful beings like Jiren and God of Destruction Candidate Toppo.
Boomstick: It also doesn't help that 17 will be willing to hold back or fight sloppy if he's fighting someone who reminds him of the animals he protects.
Wiz: Regardless, with his infinite stamina and energy, 17 has proven to be the 7th Universe's ultimate ace in the Tournament of Power time and time again, and his victory truly made him the 7th Universe's MVP.
Android 17: Why do you think I work alone, protecting that whole by myself?
Galactic Poachers Leader: *grunts*
Android 17: Because I'm a one-man army.
Pre-Death Battle[]
Wiz: Alright. The combatants are set. Let's end this debate once and for all.
Boomstick: It's time for a DEATH BATTTTTTTTTTTTTTLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Death Battle[]
(*Cues: Tower of Odin - Marvel Super Hero Squad Online*)
Krillin and 17 glared at each other, ready for combat. 18 and Marron watched from a distance. Krillin and 17 engaged in hand-to-hand combat and started launching a barrage of blows and kicks. 17 defeated Krillin by roundhouse kicking him, knocking on his back.
Krillin: Ow! You hit harder than 18! You're supposed to pull your punches against me!
Android 17: I was pulling my punches against you.
Android 18: Not bad for the both of you.
18 looked into the distance and noticed a figure flying in.
Android 18: Guys, something's coming.
Krillin: I can't sense their energy. Maybe an android?
The figure was Vision and he was in search of an Infinity Stone. He landed on the island.
Vision: Actually, the correct term is Synthezoid
Android 17: What do you want?
Vision: I'm in search of something incredibly important. And I detect that its on this island.
Android 17: Sorry pal. I think it'd be best if you just turn around and leave.
Vision: I'm not leaving until I get what I came for.
Android 17: Oh, don't worry. If you need something, I can give you a substitute.
Vision: You couldn't hope to give me something equivalent to what I need.
Android 17: Let's test that, shall we?
Android 17 got into a battle stance.
Fight!
(*Cues: Zero VS Sigma - Mega Man X4*)
17 flew upwards and Vision fired solar rays from his eyes, but 17 dodged them. He escaped Vision's eyesight, reappeared in front of him, and punched him upwards. Vision and 17 started to engage in hand-to-hand combat. 17 blocked a punch that Vision threw and knocked him back with a Kiai. 17 fired a Photon Flash at Vision, but he phased through it. 17 flew in to throw a punch and knocked Vision back.
17 fired a Photon Flash again, but this time it hit Vision and blew a hole in his chest. Noticing the hole in his chest, Vision decided to gather up his nanites and he repaired himself.
Android 17: What? How?
Vision: Nanites. That's how.
Android 17: Try recovering from this!
Android 17 flew towards Vision, palmed him in the stomach and elbowed him down to the ground.
Krillin: All right! Go 17!
Vision got back up and turned invisible. 17 clenched his fists together. Vision revealed himself, punched 17 upwards, and fired a solar ray at him, creating an explosion. However, Android 17 used his barrier to block.
Android 17: That's a stupid attack.
Vision flew up and started engaging Android 17 in hand-to-hand combat. 17 kicked Vision and Vision disassembled in response. 17 fired his Accel Shot, but Vision was constantly avoiding it. Vision flew over to 17, reformed himself, increased the density of his fist, and punched 17 far away. Vision became intangible and went to phase 17, but he only struck 17's chest.
Vision: What?
17 backhanded Vision away and fired a ki blast. Vision tried to phase through it, but failed.
Vision: Impossible! The only other person I couldn't phase through was Galactus!
17: I don't know who this Galactus is, but it's clear you're outmatched.
17 and Vision traded blows before 17 sucker-punched Vision. He then started uppercutting Vision until they went high up into the clouds.
(*Cues: Never Let It Go - Sonic The Fighters*)
Vision: You're going to regret your decisions against me. And I will make your time of regretting slowly but surely.
Android 17: Hmph. You can try, but you won't succeed.
Android 17 fired the Accel Shot, but Vision disassembled himself while maneuvering around the ki blasts before going behind 17. He reformed himself being 17 to deliver a powerful punch, but 17 blocked it. 17 proceeded to punch Vision in the stomach, but Vision caught the punch, catching 17 by surprise.
Vision: Perhaps if your moves were less calculable and less predictable, you could have hit your mark.
Vision fired solar rays from his eyes, but 17 dodged them with ease, grabbed Vision's neck and threw him to the other side. Vision flew away and started scanning for weak spots, but couldn't find anything. Vision fired a solar ray from his forehead, but 17 raised his hand and created a barrier to block, creating an explosion. As the explosion dissipated, Vision saw that 17 wasn't there anymore.
17 was actually behind Vision and created a barrier around him. As Vision noticed the barrier around him, he tried to phase out, but to no avail. 17 kicked him around the world. As Vision was about to come back to 17, he increased his density. 17 was gonna kick the barrier, but it started to sink. 17 fired a Photon Flash to destroy the barrier.
As the barrier was destroyed, Vision disassembled into several nanites and flew back up.
(*Cues: Ultimate Battle - Dragon Ball Super*)
Vision flew up to punch 17, but he dodged, went behind Vision, and kicked him.
Vision: Let's finish this!
Android 17: I agree!
Vision increased the density in his fist and flew to punch 17. 17 flew to punch Vision with a barrier-coated fist. Both fists clashed together, generating electricity. Both warriors refused to give in and kept fighting to overpower the other. They started to engage in hand-to-hand combat and were dead even until 17 kicked Vision, causing him to disassemble. Vision reassembled himself and fired solar rays from his eyes.
Android 17 fired a ki blast and canceled the attack out. He fired a Photon Flash at Vision, but Vision fired a solar ray from his forehead. Their beams struggled until 17 overpowered Vision and blasted him in the head. 17 started to fly all over Vision, leaving Vision utterly confused due to sheer speed alone.
17 started firing ki blasts everywhere, blasting Vision and causing him to disassemble parts of himself.
Android 17: When you dodged my Accel Shot, I noticed that you were able to weave through my attacks. At first, I was unsure how to counter this. Then I realized. You can only avoid attacks from one direction. But you can't avoid attacks that hit you in your entirety.
Vision was trying to reassemble himself, but he struggled to do so due to the lack of power in him left. Android 17 then flew behind Vision. As Vision turned around, Android 17 fired a Photon Flash that completely destroyed Vision in his entirety.
K.O!
Post-Death Battle[]
(*Cues: Android 17 Theme - Dragon Ball FighterZ*)
Boomstick: Cyborg beats robot? Eh, not surprised given our research.
Wiz: Both 17 and Vision were tough to put down. Vision was somewhat smarter technology-wise, but 17 edged out everywhere else.
Boomstick: Yeah, when it came to strength, 17 was just too much. Sure Vision can punch harder than Sentry, who's the embodiment of a million exploding suns, but 17 was so strong that Goku had to go Blue against him.
Wiz: After turning Blue, Goku states that he didn't intend to do this, meaning he had no other option against 17. This means 17 is stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku, who is so powerful that his fight with Beerus threatened the stability of the universe.
Boomstick: There's about 300 billion stars in the Milky Way Galaxy alone, and there's 2 trillion galaxies in a universe alone. That means 17 is 600,000,000,000,000,000 times stronger than Vision.
Wiz: And Goku's training with Whis and the Zenkai boosts from being injured to near death have already made him much more powerful than this.
Boomstick: 17 was also way faster. Vision dodging a hammer faster than Silver Surfer is impressive, but not as impressive as keeping up with Goku, who can match Beerus.
Wiz: Beerus was fast enough to traverse 65 nebulas in 80 seconds. Assuming he crossed the SN 1885A, G.19+0.3, Kepler's Nova, SN 1181, W49B, EO102, LMC N49, Kesteven 79, Sagittarius A East, SN 1987A, and Pistol Nebula, that would put him at over 1,259,122,388,059 times the speed of light.
Boomstick: And Goku certainly got faster than that. Later on, when he battled Frieza once again, they were moving so fast that Gohan and Krillin were unable to see their movements.
Wiz: And that was only in base form. 17 matched the speed of Super Saiyan Goku. As the Super Saiyan form is a 50 times multiplier, this means 17 is over 239 times faster than Vision.
Boomstick: Even assuming the Silver Surfer took 5 seconds to traverse 500,000 light-years, he would still be over 19 times faster than Vision.
Wiz: Even going so far as to say it took 1 second, Vision would still be over thrice as slow as 17. And that's excluding the Zenkai boosts he got at the hands of Sorbet and Black. And that's not even 65 nebulae we mentioned. It was only 11. That's less than a fifth of the distance Beerus crossed.
Boomstick: 17 was also way tougher too, being able to take hits from Anilaza, who was able to backhand Super Saiyan Vegeta's Big Bang Attack.
Wiz: Vegeta was powerful enough to destroy the entire Hyperbolic Time Chamber in his base form. While many might argue the Chamber is planet sized due to a statement made by Goku, there are many reasons why this is not the case.
Boomstick: When Vegeta first destroyed the chamber, he was panting as if he were exhausted. But it was confirmed in the Saiyan Saga that Vegeta already had enough power to destroy a planet. And he only grew much stronger than that thanks to the numerous training and Zenkai boosts that followed. So it would make no sense that Vegeta would struggle to destroy something he could destroy with relative ease in his career.
Wiz: The second reason is that the Hyperbolic Time Chamber is often described as being a separate dimension. In fact, according to the description of the Vice Shout, it works by tearing down dimensional barriers and ripping holes in reality, which can potentially tear apart universes. In fact, this was used by Super Buu to escape the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and threaten the stability of the universe.
Boomstick: While it doesn't mean Buu or Gotenks are universal, namely because they got whooped by Beerus when he wasn't even using 10% of his power, it does mean the Hyperbolic Time Chamber is definitely universe-sized. But Wizard! If Goku's statement about the Hyperbolic Time chamber isn't true, then that means his statement on the Pretty Black Heart isn't true!
Wiz: Well, keep in mind this. Goku has experienced being inside the Gravity Chamber several times, even before the Tournament of Power, so he has an opinion about the attack that can be backed up by a more recent experience. However, the time gap from when he first went into the Chamber and when he made the statement are severely large, not to mention Goku first went in there as a kid. So while the statement about the Chamber is false, the statement on the black hole is true.
Boomstick: But Wizard! It doesn't matter if the Vice Shout tears down dimensional barriers because dimensional barriers don't determine the size of a dimension! So it's planet-sized!
Wiz: This argument could work but only if the Hyperbolic Time Chamber was stated to be a pocket dimension. But this is never the case.
Boomstick: And 17 also held another advantage in that he had much more powerful energy attacks than Vision. The most powerful thing Vision could harm was Wonder Man, who could take a hit from Sentry, who has the power of a million exploding suns. But Wizard! That's not the toughest thing Vision's blasts have harmed! They once harmed Ymir!
Wiz: Well, Vision's solar energy beams give off heat, which Ymir is weak to, so there's no chance it was just power alone. But for the sake of the argument, let's use it anyways. Ymir was tough enough to engage Surtur, the King of the Fire Demons, in battle, and he's proven to be quite a match for even Odin himself.
Boomstick: Odin is so powerful that most of his fights end with the death and destruction of nearby galaxies. Impressive, but nothing compared to what 17 can do. 17's energy attack once managed to stagger Toppo, who could withstand a Kamehameha from Ultimate Gohan, who could overwhelm Super Saiyan Blue Goku. That means his Kamehameha is comparable to the one Goku launched as a Super Saiyan God which threatened to destroy the universe.
Wiz: Now let's compare some of the hardest things 17 and Vision's defenses have taken hits from. The hardest thing that Vision's density shifting powers protected him from were attacks from 9 Hulks, and a single one could harm Thor, who survived the destruction of a solar-system sized ship.
Boomstick: Impressive, but nothing compared to 17's barrier, which could go through Anilaza's Full Power Energy Ball, which was overwhelming Super Saiyan Blue Goku’s God Kamehameha, True Golden Frieza’s Golden Death Beam, Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta’s Final Flash, Android 17’s Photon Flash, and Ultimate Gohan’s Ultimate Kamehameha, and all the users have proven to be on Universal levels of power.
Wiz: For those of you who doubt if True Golden Frieza is universal, Golden Frieza once matched ki blasts with Super Saiyan Blue Goku, who is stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku, meaning True Golden Frieza is even stronger than that.
Boomstick: And the Energy Barrier went straight through that with no cracks. And since Vision’s most dense form was less tough than 17’s barrier, this meant 17’s barrier punches were harder than Vision’s density-increased punches.
Wiz: In addition to having stronger energy attacks, 17 also had much more ways to utilize his energy, as opposed to Vision only having one way to use his solar energy, giving 17 an advantage in versatility.
Boomstick: And even though Vision had a finite amount of energy, 17 had an infinite amount of energy, meaning he could play out the fight for as long as he wanted.
Wiz: And he was far smarter than Vision. While Vision is smarter technology-wise, combat knowledge goes to 17.
Boomstick: He’s much better thanks to being able to find weak spots, studying a foe’s fighting style, figuring out a person’s unique trick, and interrupting transformations.
Wiz: This means by playing the fight out for a long time, he would eventually find a way to overwhelm Vision.
Boomstick: But Vision’s phasing could give him the win, right?
Wiz: Well, not exactly. Vision has actually failed to phase through Galactus when he was was starving. When Galactus was moderately fed, he was so powerful that in his fight with Mephisto in his realm, they ended up destroying several galaxies. While that is impressive, it’s still nowhere near 17’s level of power. And keep in mind, this is moderately fed Galactus. Vision failed to phase through starving Galactus.
Boomstick: Even assuming Vision could phase 17, 17 has survived greater internal attacks like his own self-destruction, which cancelled out a an attack of universal power. So even if Vision could phase, it wouldn’t slow down Android 17.
Wiz: And even though his phasing powers have disrupted technology before, that's through the use of tinkering with it and finding the off switch, something 17 doesn’t have. The only way he can be shut off is through a remote control, which he destroyed.
Boomstick: But Wizard! You forget that Vision has technopathy! Therefore, he can just make 17 kill himself!
Wiz: Well, it’s highly unlikely Vision would use this tactic as he didn’t use it against lesser machines like Doombots and Sentinels. Even then, he actually can't since 17 is partly organic and its shown in GT that 17 can be hypnotized. While GT isn't canon, the 17 from GT shares the same biological functions as that of the canon Android 17. Or technically schematics. The point is, in order to be hypnotized, one requires an organic brain. And since canon 17 and GT 17 share the same bodily functions or schematics depending on which you want to go with, that means Vision can't hack 17.
Boomstick: But what about his regeneration? Couldn't he constantly regenerate from 17's attacks?
Wiz: Well, Android 17 would certainly be more than willing to interrupt Vision as he's trying to regenerate. Even more, 17's ki blasts would certainly have enough power to create an explosion that would destroy Vision in his entirety as his durability with and without density shifting is lower than the power of 17's ki blasts. And Vision's finite amount of energy meant he couldn't keep it up forever and 17 would be more than willing to interrupt his solar energy absorption.
Boomstick: Lapis sure had at least 17 Visions of victory.
Wiz: The winner is Android 17.