Thread:ClassicGameGuys/@comment-26523805-20151128055145/@comment-26333664-20151201051902

" Alright thanks as well, though I have to nitpick on the feats that the OBD Wiki has for speed."

Any time, happy to help. I'll try and address this

"1. Mega Man is slower than the Force Beams (Quick Man Stage's Beams of Light.), in the Games, he is shown to be slower than them, he outran them by using the stage design, or in Megamix and Archie, using the Time Stopper. It's completely possible that the Force Beams aren't even made of light, it's more likely they are around Quick Man's speed, which is faster than lightning, which is still pretty fast though"

Actually I completely agree with you on the force beams thing, which is why MM2/MMGG era Megs was only ranked at relativistic (for moving at velocities comparable to them) rather than FTL in running speed, those were used as evidence of consistency while the true ranking came from reaching the black holes' escape velocities. Also worth noting is that in MMGG, there is no time freezing weapon, meaning that he for certain outran the light on foot with no weapon helping him out there: http://youtu.be/1BEv6TwiYcs?t=2014

As for Quick Man's speed, the lightning line was actually a fan-made mistranslation: http://i.imgur.com/hAZZeAV.png

"How is he faster than... the speed of light...!?" - Elec Man

http://i.imgur.com/g0thcFz.png

Quick Man's biography: "As part of his ongoing quest to control time itself, Dr. Wily thought that the first step may be to approach the speed of light. This was the idea upon which Quick Man was designed. By using unique equipment developed by Dr. Wily, Quick Man is able to accelerate time in his immediate proximity, which results in the illusion that Quick Man is moving extremely fast. The theory supporting this equipment has not yet been perfected, however, and Quick Man is only able to accelerate his "time range" to two to four times that of his surroundings. Despite this limitation, Quick Man's acute reasoning and combat skills have extended the time acceleration system's usefulness beyond initial expectations. The extra hardware attached to his right arm is the Quick Boomerang launcher unit."

http://i.imgur.com/l1rWHCS.png

Flash Man's biography: "The speed of light refers to the speed at which light travels. Flash Man's Time Stopper is a system which allows him to control the speed of light, which in effect halts the flow of time for those affected. Though he does not possess any particularly powerful attacks, Flash Man is free to damage his defenseless opponents during the brief period that his time stopper is active. The only robot who is affected differently by the time stopper is Quick Man, whose system also deals with manipulating the speed of light. In Quick Man's case, the time stopper reduces the speed of light to nearly zero, infinitely increasing his mass and thus creating a gravitational field. The result is an effect similar to a black hole, the gravitational force of which then damages Quick Man. As no other robot possesses the ability to manipulate the speed of light, Quick Man is the only one who is affected in this way."

However since Japanese is a context-sensitive language, I asked Imperator about the Japanese version of the scene: http://forums.screwattack.com/download/file.php?id=629

This was her response

"Alright so as you have said Japanese is a much more context sensitive language. The two components you have there are Hikari which means light, flash, shine, bright and Den which means electric, lightning. When you put them together, I suppose the most literal translation you could give is "The Flash of Lightning" which implies it's the physical flash of it, which is obviously light."

That explains why Elec Man freaked out when Quick Man dodged his lightning but was completely calm after Mega Man dodged it twice in a row; Mega Man didn't outrun the flash, just the actual lightning, while Quick Man outran even the flash of light emitted

http://i.imgur.com/YhV9bbK.png

http://i.imgur.com/a13x5Pb.png

http://i.imgur.com/vahbPVV.png

"2. The Black Hole Bomb can't really be considered a Black Hole, as Death Battle explained in their version of Mega Man vs Astro Boy, (Both you and Screwattack are right in your fights, as you used two different variations of the same character.) But Saturn's Black Hole can't be considered a Black Hole for multiple reasons, as it's much more of a portal absorbing the air into it rather than a black hole, which is supported by the fact that it is used as a teleporter in Gigamix. Some of the same reasons a Black Hole Bomb isn't a black hole apply to the Black Hole as well."

The black hole and other weapons work very differently in Giga Mix however (most notably Flash Man's weapon) and it's not considered a portal in Mega Man V either which is why it has such suction. I also don't see why the black hole bomb wouldn't be considered a black hole.

ClassicGameGuys wrote: For the concrete thing, even if it debunked the feat, that only applies to Galaxy Man's black hole, not Saturn's. Not to mention that the concrete is a transmutative hax weapon, not a brute strength/physical weapon. It transmutes more or less everything in the game, including magma. Does that mean the magma isn't legit? No, the concrete shooter just breaks the laws of physics in the game constantly. But I do have a long post explaining why the black holes are legit so I will paste it

" http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=26532

And before anybody argues that it is a pseudo-black hole, that would be incorrect. For starters, the black hole was created from his gravity manipulation + space/time powers, legitimate black holes have properties that only manipulators of space and time could replicate.

http://i.imgur.com/rjjXiid.png

Strike one

From my convo with Taco I am too lazy to edit:

'Taco: Although, just because the weapon is called Black Hole doesn't mean it's a tried and true black hole. Could just be a nod to the fact that his powers involve gravity. Is there mention of singularities or anything like that which might corroborate it?

Me: Saturn's works similarly to Gravity Beetle's and Antonion's, both of which are labelled as space/time weapons and have space/time manipulation/properties

From his Rock Man & Forte Database CD- His special weapon Black Hole can suck anything. A next generation robot that can manipulate time and space.

The 2nd sentence can not be referring to any power aside from Black Hole for obvious reasons.

Strike two

Gravity Beetle and Gravity Antonion also both have incredibly strong gravity manipulation, which explains them forming the black holes. Furthermore Beetle's is outright referred to as a gravity well and it can not be explained as anything akin to a worm hole as an alternative. Navigators also explain that the gravity and effects of the black holes are localized, which is why it does not destroy anything in the background unless they want it to (see Gravity Beetle's X3 intro and compare it to his boss fight for reference)'"

Strike three

From the Mega Man X8 script:  ALIA: Looks like there's a gravity control system in place in this facility. You can probably open up new routes by rotating the gravitational pull. [X moves forward into the next area.] ALIA: There are blocks around here that are affected by the changes in gravita- tional pull. You should take note of the position of the blocks and predict the way they'll move. Some enemies can be destroyed by falling blocks, so be sure  to use them to your advantage. [X moves on until he finds a room with multiple gravity switches.] ALIA: It appears that the gravity manipulation switches operate differently in this room. They should help you find a route to the next area if you get stuck. ALIA: I've detected a Maverick signal up ahead. There are no gravity switches  in here. But apparently the target has the ability to alter gravity at will. Be  careful when gravity is altered. You don't want to get caught up in the chaos. Strike four

Most obviously, Antonion's black hole is capable of sucking up projectiles such as X's mega buster fire which X7 shows to have long distance travelling of sub-relativistic speeds, and it even absorbs Optic Sunflower's weapon. Optic Sunflower specifically manipulates the EM spectrum itself, meaning that the black hole can in fact absorb light, and the escape velocities of Saturn, Galaxy Man, Gravity Beetle, and Gravity Antonion's black holes were reached only by faster than light (via plenty of other feats) characters such as X, Zero, and Axl

Strike five

Also of note is the fact that the black holes in this Mega Man timeline have been repeatedly demonstrated to be destroyed only by weapons pertaining to them, they are unable to be destroyed by brute force which is another characteristic of a black hole

Strike six and you're out twice in a row

With all of that taken into consideration, they are certainly legitimate black holes. There are more than a few black holes feat that were accepted for far less evidence." "3. Mega Man stated himself after the fight against Duo that he was holding back against him, so it's not a very stable feat to use for MFTL, though Space Rush is pretty solid."

I'm well aware, however Duo is still bloodlusted during the fight and was perfectly willing to kill Mega Man (if you lose, it's game over as opposed to, say, the Vile boss fight where even if you lose the game progresses as normal: http://youtu.be/19WWBCHeL3k?t=220 )

Holding back yes, but he was still visibly putting in effort to defeat Mega Man and holding his own, and he uses the Meteor Strike, his strongest attack, in the fight regardless which Mega Man dodges. Nobody would argue for Mega Man being superior to Duo, but he is still roughly on his level, as backed up by Sunstar and the Space Rush feats which technically got higher results.

This is also backed up by the fact Mega Man was able to tank a prolonged assault from a giant mech boosted by the Evil Energy when a sentient unboosted strand was nearly Duo's equal, and after the long electrocution he goes through while caught off guard, he is in perfectly fine condition: http://youtu.be/0FHMo3n12_I?t=386

Said mech also was so powerful Duo needed to sneak attack it, hit him several times to defeat it, and directly target its power source. Its punch also required effort from Duo to dodge it and Mega Man leapt out of the way at about the same speed as Duo.

If that's not enough, Mega Man also survived a large strand of the Evil Energy crushing him and broke out of it before Wily could shoot him (Though he needed Duo's help to get out of it in time) http://youtu.be/dnSnZB-f06g?t=46

One of Wily's cannons powered by Evil Energy also injures Duo and the beam moves comparable to his full-speed charge: http://youtu.be/dnSnZB-f06g?t=70

Mega Man is able to react to Wily's #8 machine lasers, dodge them, and tank them in the same boss fight when they are backed by the same power source, and survives the fortress' destruction while being assaulted violently by a huge, human sized strand of the Evil Energy: http://youtu.be/dnSnZB-f06g?t=458

Furthermore in Power Fighters, Duo needs the team's help to secure the Evil Energy when Wily uses it to power up his robots, and they are canonically shown in the intro working together, with Bass of all people in their team: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwktCw3_zo4

Considering Duo's nature, he wouldn't work with Bass unless it was absolutely necessary, and Bass' ending is confirmed canon as it revealed Wily built Zero over a year before Mega Man X4 came out, meaning that Bass and Mega Man are on par with Duo to the point he needs their help to defeat certain enemies. As cocky as Bass is he also tells Duo that if he wants to fight him, he better train hard

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">"The Tengu Man and Bass feat is pretty true, but the adaptor used in it ISN'T the same one as Mega Man's Super Adapter, as Bass is using the Treble Boost, not his version of the Super Adapter, which uses the plans of Mega Man's Super Adapter. Treble Boost at the least is a upgraded version of the Super Adapter, as it has different features as well as design compared to the Super Adapter."

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">That's true, the Treble Boost is different from the Super Adaptor by a good bit but they have the same blueprints, and thus the speed should be comparable (also demonstrated in Mega Man 7's ending. Plus fodder Tengu Man casually matched that speed, when Bass himself was only toying with Tengu Man)

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;margin-bottom:0px!important;">"Well that's pretty much most of what I wanted to nitpick in speed, if any of it's wrong, I won't be suprised as I've been writing this for about a hour."

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;margin-bottom:0px!important;">All good. If you have any disagreements with me always feel free to let me know (most of this stuff I just copy-pasted from earlier debates I had lol)