User blog:BangJang96/The Flash Debating Controversies Explained - BangJang96

G'day all, my name is BangJang96, almost two year timer at the DBF. Coming to this wiki, I have come across all sorts of new debating philosophies, terms, characters even, & other key things in certain types of debates. However, throughout the years, I have left my mark as generally the DC expert of this wiki, and in particular, an expert on the Flash, my favorite character ever. Mainly it was to prove Flash beats Sonic, but I am long past that debate, but completely besides the point, Flash himself is quite a mess when it comes to VS Debating, because he can be underrated, overrated, overhyped, wanked, downplayed, overlooked, inconsistent, etc. And since I am left with nothing to do as I just got back from Lifeguard training, allow me to give a better interpretation on the character and how debating with him, you need to be smart, consistent, & avoid habits.

Underrated Aspect
The underrated aspect certainly has died down in many sources of media like this one, such as reddit, comicvine, etc. because Flash over the years has gotten a lot more exposure to feats that aren't just speed. The underrated aspect can come from such things as "Flash has speed & hax, but lacks AP & durability", which is far beyond wrong. Someone who is DCs fastest character (setting himsefl apart from DC Gods/heralds) should not be held to the standard of just a glass canon. In fact, like most of his fellow mid-tier JL members, Flash has had run-ins and fights with people higher then his powers, such as the Spectre, the Black Racer, & even the Anti-Monitor. The AM fight wasn't direct, as he merely tanked his antimatter energy thus resulting his Speed Force arrival. A feat like that in itself may seem like a complete outlier, but it isn't. Along with that, theres his feats of tanking a kick from the Spectre from the Moon to Mars, or when he ciphoned Speed Force energy to resist the Anti-Life Equation, which is on the Multiversal scale of reality warping, and it can bend the will of others. And even strength is nothing to shy away from. He managed to one-shot the physical & spiritual aspect of the Black Racer, a God with omnipresent speed (since he got it from the Source Wall), and even takes down the whole Justice League back in Pre-Crisis, a time when WW could destroy a universe in a fight with Shazam, and a time when Superman was also in fact Universal, along with fighting Supergirl, someone who can pulverize galaxies as well back in Post-Crisis.

And its not just physicality that gets little to no light, as his powers are something that should not be taken for granted. The basic consensus is the Flash can do a few things; go MFTL, phase, manipulate lightning, manipulate air, travel through time, go to the speed force, and use the Infinite Mass Punch. However, he also has precognition, a mind that calculates and processes events far from the normal speed (which is just the attosecond feat), dimensional travel, and a Pre-Crisis healing factor that can potentially be on par with Wolverines or Deadpools. And of course, there is but one more; Speed Steal. An ability that renders someone completely useless of their speed, turns them into a statue stuck in time forever until Flash can decide whatever he wants to do with him/her.

And to top it all off, there is his white lightning form in which he can move time completely forward against his enemies. Neato.

All of this is something that isn't very recent in as much, but it is definetly something that needs to be summarized properly.

Overrated Aspect
[Insert self-conscious joke that I make the Flash seem like a broken character and completely acknowledge it]

With most mainstream characters that are usually intenteded to be the powerhouses of their own respective abilities & titles, the Flash is certainly among the top tier of his trade. He is '''extremely overrated. '''Its something that is seen more often then not on pretty much everywhere, typically on comicvine, YouTube comments, etc. For example, on comicvine, he beat Thanos, Larfleeze, Galactus, Sentry, Silver Surfer, Dr. Fate, Dr. Doom, & others. Although I would argue he could beat those named character except Galactus & Fate. Anyways, no doubt about it the Flash is indeed a fast character, one of the fastest in fiction, but by no means is he the strongest. Sure, he is potentially almost at a Multiversal level if bloodlusted and completely powered up in composite mode, but theres characters that even though are mostly just Gods I can name off can simply just blink the Flash out of existence or Flash gives them a good fight but doesn't make it out in the end. Now Flash has had experience with Gods as I have sad before, but every God/powerhouse is different in their own way. For instance, Spectre is someone who balances raw power, & powers you'd typically find in a herald of God. Or Darkseid, a being who also channels both raw power, and destruvtice power. Now, there can be an inifnite number of categories where I could go on about this, but this also is suggesting that DC Gods aren't the most powerful either. And some Gods such as Madoka or the Q from Star Trek could simply just wipe him away. And are there people who aren't Gods that could likely beat him? Definetly. Take Dimentio (although I am not sure if he does or doesn't qualify as a 'God' or if hes just someone who is Multiversal but not labeled as a 'God') for example, as his abilities could give Flash a run for his money without much effort.

That being said, there are the common fallacies that can one would think could counteract exactly what I am saying. Phrases like;

"Flash via being MFTL & Speed hax" "Has so-and-so taken a Speed Force dump or a Speed Steal? Nope, Flash curbs"

"Flash because he can phase meaning he can bypass durability"

"Flash via orga-


 * shot

Now lets take these phrases again but break down what they truly mean;

"Flash via being MFTL & Speed hax"

MFTL= Masssively Faster Then Light, correct? What if its a God whos speed is literally Omnipotent, or speed that is beyond the phrase "omni"? Flash does indeed have infinite & immeasurable speed, but does that mean he is in fact the only one who has it? Not even close. As for speed hax, it pertains to things like his speed mind, precognition, and time manipulation. Yes, light appears frozen to him almost anytime he could be fighting someone. But could it mean people can't hit the Flash? It is very hard, but it has been pulled off by people like Shazam, Amazo, etc. It does depend on how powerful you are in comparison however. What about time manipulation? Surely you're screwed there. But what I learned in a debate with my good friend PlozAlcachaz, is that if you are a being above the 5th dimension (which is time & space), time manipulation is frankly quite useless, so hats to you 5D beings.

"Has so-and-so taken a Speed Force dump"

Speed Force dump was more of a Wally West-orianted feat, as it was basically just a SF amp that he frequently gets, like when he outrun instant teleportation. Its basically just the Speed Force duking on him with energy, and apparently thats one of those "you-problems" or in this case "you-feats" where if you haven't done this, then you ain't compared to no speedster. Now the Speed Force is definetly a great defense system for speedsters, as it has helped numerous Flashes with numerous resistances, like soul possession resistances, or reality warping resistances, etc. Now with reality warping, its a whole different ball-game because the Anti-Life Equation feat was a Multiversal reality warping feat, but like I said with Gods, reality warping can be interpreted in many different levels, some of which are higher then the Anti-Life Equation.

"or a Speed Steal? Nope, Flash curbs"

Speed Steal is single-handidly the trickiest of the bunch but it seems to shut down debates faster then someone can say "Archie Sonic via reality warping" on YouTube. And it is HEAVILY taken out of what it means what it should mean.

"SPEED Steal" is what its called. It means Flash has completely immobilized you and your durability & physicality have been bypassed completely. But that doesn't mean a character gets their powers stolen as well. Although it seems like that wouldn't make much of a difference, characters who could time/dimensional travel or characters of absurd power & of extreme intellect could perfectly counter it, as you could go back in time and prevent it from happening, and end it there. Although without specific powers that could counter Speed Steal, I don't know how to help you.

"Flash because he can phase meaning he can bypass durability"

This one is honestly the most aggravating to me, because its just flat-out wrong. Yes, it may seem that phasing can generally take out any opponents brain in a split second, but a daily reminder that a good majority of characters do in fact have healing factors, a perfect counter for this ability.

Overhyped
Underrated characters will soon become overhyped characters. Take Plastic Man for example. Hes someone who apparently is on par with Martian Manhunter, or could potentially oneshot someones innards with his elasticity. Sooner or later, threads that show off his feats could lead to unecessary high praise. Flash again fits this mold pretty nicely. Not just in the power aspect, as hes apparently suppose to be the golden goose of storylines, morals, struggles, etc. He lost his wife, sacrificed himself for the Multiverse, became a God of Death, let go of himself and didn't "hold back" for once, etc. Yes, these are all enjoyable and fascinating to witness and see him go through, but does that mean he is the only one that juggles his life & his abilities? No. Even people like Sentry have it just as bad, if not worse then what Flash typically goes through, considering he accidentally killed his wife, and has mental unstableness and struggles to hold back. Pretty similar to what Flash has gone through. Loss, morals, etc. Or lets take someone like Luigi? A sidekick that always seemed to be in the shadow of Mario, but in his own rights, became a total beast. Also similar to what Flash goes through; seeming like just a character with one unique ability on the side of a roster of swoll boys & girls, but hes actually a powerhouse. Sure, Flash has many memorable moments that aren't feats that we love to acknowledge and boost about his great character. But that doesn't mean hes the only one who has more to life then meets the eye.

Wanked
This ones easier to explain then the rest. So I'll use it as a list;

-Flash is the fastest character in fiction

--Not true, due to Gods with omnipotent speeds

-Flash can bypass durability

--Not everyones, especially those with abilites that counter him.

-Flash can solo blah blah blah & one shot blah blah blah

--That ones its own interpretation

Downplayed
At the same time, Flash can be brought down quite easily;

-Flash is a glass canon with no AP or durability

--While he may not show off that much physical feats, neither does someone like Thor, who is a nice Galaxy level character, and Flash as well has had experience with characters that aren't below MSS as proven MANY times.

-So-and-so can just tag or hit Flash if they get the chance

--Depending on the opponent, likely not always.

Two of the most common things seen about the Flash and how he is suppose to be some hit-n-run character, but by no means is that true.

Overlooked
Flash believe it or not, is overlooked in a positive way.

Overlooking Flash on his good side is nothing to get into a fuss about, since this is a character who has a lot of potential while at the same time a a character who can also seem very limited. But when you look at his potential, you see that Flash is a character that serves as a character with a unique yet generic story, and how his abilities separate him from others. Speed is his main ability. Among the rest, people like Superman & Martian Manhunter have strength. People like Shazam have magic. People like Batman & Green Arrow have martial arts. People like Aquaman or Wonder Woman have superb physiologies. But Flash takes the often misunderstood key in the physicality list, that being speed. Its something that can end a fight quickly, something that can make you faster then others, and something that can boost your scalings in fights. Flash takes all three of those and blends them in a nice mold, making for some perfect set-ups for feats.

Inconsistent
And thus, the one that I was quite hesitate writing about. Remember what I typed about Flash being 'limited'? Well, Flash is indeed a very limited character. Specifically, outside of his comic incarnation. If you take a moment to think about it, no other incarnation outside of the comics of the Flash has beaten the Speed of Light, because he is generally seen slower. Its quite aggravating seeing that happen so much, as he makes up for what the rest do not in a fight, but it seems like the plot has forgotten how fast Flash has always been. In the CW, hes fought Reverse-Flash, Zolomon, The Thinker, & Savitar, and hes STILL not even past the speed of light. TV shows are speaking for itself basically, as he again, doesn't make up for what the rest don't have much of compared to him; speed. Then you have to look at his material; sometimes you do wonder why Flash is so strong, yet only cause of a few feats that he either accomplished back in the 80s, or in the present 2010s. What gives? What gives is that the Flash was somehow picked to have his villains be not just speedsters. Not just telepathic gorillas. But also rogues with elemental-ish guns & powers. And heres where the infamous word that I so desparately hate comes in; Plot. Induced. Stupidity. These villains would serve for someone much better quite frankly, like Green Arrow, the Doom Patrol, the Teen Titans, frankly anyone. But put them against a MFTL slaughter-house and somehow pull it off? Just why? Sure, seeming them in any media Flash is in is quite nice and breath-taking, but are you kidding me? Its cause of this that Flash is often pulled away from things like Infinite Crisis or Darkseid War, events that change reality, or events that alter everything, to have him fight a couple of crooks with guns that frankly probably shoot slower then Mach 10. Now in that same sentience, Flash is also one of the trickiest characters to not limit. A good example of this, is a quote by Peter David, a writer on Young Justice who said, "Speedsters make me nervous, because if you play them accurately, they're impossible to beat...The moment someone sees him coming, it's too late. You shout, "It's the Flash!" and you haven't even got "It's" out before you're done...I could deal with Impulse because he was easily distracted." Quite the true words if you ask me. Flash is someone who could potentially solve all the worlds problems, stop global warming, feed the poor, become Santa Claus, anything basically because hes fast. And to play him right- to make using him not so nervous, then people would want more of Flash taking place in events that are catastrophic and filled with potential feats & fights. Rebirth is doing a great job of this, as Hunter Zolomon has opened up the "Strengh Force" and the "Sage Force" to counter Flashes "Speed Force" and judging by the end of it, this is definetly a potential Crisis that is much awaited.

Ending Objective
The objective of this thread was to furthermore show how the struggle of using a character such as the Flash is really there. So to all of you out there who have encountered me in a debate with the Scarlet Speedster, in no way have I wanted to boast Flash as the greatest character in fiction. Not at all. I do what people like Paleomario does, where I want to put an end to common beliefs or mistakes regarding the character, and shine light on truly how powerful they are. Sure theres been about one instance where I admit defeat for the Flash on this wiki, but by no means does that mean I could not name countless instances where the Flash is generally outmatched. But in the end, don't take this character for granted. If you want to enjoy him, then read this very carefully, cause I guarantee you will enjoy him much more then you would. If you do not like this character, I hope I helped you put an end to the common fallacies & mistakes made about this character.

But there you have it; that my friends is what I like to call...The Flash.

Bang out.