Talk:Kalos Starter Pokemon Battle Royale/@comment-12846745-20150405161400/@comment-26418719-20160811051757

@ThunderBeam707 You're strawmanning. THIS is what I said, in response to you.

'   Let me run the calcs by you:

0 SpA Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 224-266 (70.6 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So Protean Greninja CAN, beyond all doubt, 2HKO Chesnaught with Extrasensory, and no form of recovery will save Chesnaught from this fate.'

And then...

' here is the ABSOLUTE BEST Chesnaught can do against Greninja, assuming Chesnaught uses it right after being hit by Extrasensory:

0 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 190-225 (66.6 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Chesnaught CANNOT OHKO Greninja without a supereffective hit.'

You then begun responding with arguments such as 'items' and the like. I was comparing two natural Pokemon, and then YOU begun bringing artificial factors in, such as items. It was then that I said this, in regards to your point about items:

' I used the same conditions for both Greninja and Chesnaught: 31 in all IVs (Which are natural to a Pokemon), 0 EVs, and Neutral Natures for both, no items at all.'

 And then I gave you an example of what would happen if Greninja were allowed things like items:

' HERE is what would happen if you placed a competitive Greninja against a competitive Chesnaught:

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 413-486 (108.6 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO'

I then went on to nail the point further:

'h ere is one with Greninja at the absolute LOWEST Special Attack it can have vs a Competitively trained Chesnaught:

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;"><span style="font-weight:bold;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14.6667px;line-height:normal;">0- SpA Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 200-236 (52.6 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Oh, look! IT STILL 2HKOs!'

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">All of this in response to your very first post:

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">' Whether Greninja has Protean as its ability and better speed, its still a Glass Cannon due it having poor defense. Even if the odds were swtich, moves like Hammer Arm or Wood Hammer would finish off in possibly one hit.' Except I contradicted that and stated why Protean Greninja, in a 1v1 fight with everything natural but Hidden Abilities, would trash Chesnaught.