Talk:Goku vs Ben 10/@comment-38664455-20190628025438/@comment-25760276-20190701234123

Alright, then lets just use feats, then, without using Tiers. Heatblast has been able to evaporate a large monster made of water, and his fire was hot enough to destroy an entire cave. His statement "super-nova hot" is moot since it didn't have supernova-like effects.

Goku, in the Saiyan Saga, has fought opponents who destroyed the moon (Roshi back in Dragon Ball and Piccolo in Dragon Ball Z) and people who could shake entire planets by powering up an attack (Vegeta), people who could level cities with the flick of their finger (Nappa), and people who could actually destroy planets without much effort (Vegeta, again.) Mind you this is in the Saiyan Saga.

Next, in a filler episode (which can absolutely be counted towards Goku since the filler does not contradict anything in the manga,) Goku was nearly inside the sun, with his only protection from its heat being his flimsy space suit. Goku managed to blast himself away from the sun a whole two times before being sucked back into it again.

Furthermore, Ki has shown to have heat-like properties to it, noticeably when Gohan is able to fry meat, along with Ki in general leaving burn marks upon impact. Compare the supposed heat of the Ki blasts Goku has sustained to the heat of Heatblast's fire, who, at most, has shown to destroy a cave. None of the evidence I've used here pertains to "tiers," so take it as you will.