Talk:Darth Vader vs. Arturia Pendragon/Saber/@comment-25951993-20151018065914/@comment-3463132-20151018180328

So the Force isn't magic because it's manipulating a natural energy to achieve an effect.

But Magic is magic because it manipulates a natural energy to achieve an effect.

Alright then- have it your way; not fighting this fight again.

Now, as for Vader being "stronger" than Saber- I would love to see the calc that says he's anywhere near her level since he in no way devastates the environment around him while fighting like she does. Saber casually leaves massive craters from her fights and cuts farther than her blade can reach- when does Vader do anything that puts him at that level?

Also, Saber has her own form of precog, Instinct, that does the exact same thing Vader's precog does; those should probably cancel one another out.