User blog:Blade0886/The Debunking Show! Episode 1: Universal Goku

Hello there, and welcome to the DEBUNKING SHOW ! Today, we will be attacking our first subject to debunk : UNIVERSAL GOKU!

Contextualisation of the subject
Since this is the first episode, we shall introduce you to every section and what they’re meant for. This first one is here to put into context why did the subject come to being in people’s minds.

Dragon Ball has lived a ressurection when a new movie entirely directed by Akira Toriyama(who only had a minor involvement in the previous products such as Dragon Ball GT and the subsequent movies) hit the theatres : Dragon Ball Z Battle Of Gods.

This was Akira Toriyama’s first legitimate attempt to expand on his universe in the way he views it. The new movie went immediately viral, and kickstarted a sequel, Dragon Ball Z Revival of F and a new series : Dragon Ball Super(the first full-fledged series following the original story since Dragon Ball GT).

This series takes place during the time gap between the defeat of Kid Buu on the Kaioshin World, and the end of the original series where Goku flies away to train Uub(which is where Dragon Ball GT decided to pick up). What is going to interest us here is the new series, Dragon Ball Super. The first 27 episodes were pretty much a rehashing of the two new movies, Battle of Gods and Revival of F, with some differences in story-telling and fighting though.

And it is from this series onward where the idea of a Universal Goku was finally getting taken seriously by fans and non-fans alike(the mediocrity of GT’s plot making people turn away and hence not taking an interest in it). A few fights of Goku, and the infamous new form Super Saiyan God, while making the idea very potent, don’t make it eligible.

Disclaimer:
I want to get something straight right away : I do believe Universal Goku will become a thing. I mean, just look at Zeno. His very existence proves that Goku will someday come close, if not getting even stronger, to destroy universes. But at the time I am writing this episode, the series is currently at the minor Potaufeu arc, with Goku about to fight Copy-Vegeta(or Purple Vegeta). I will only be considering the state Goku is in from the first episode to this one. I know damn well that future episode will put Goku at Universal(hell, maybe sooner than we think. I have seen Black Goku’s design, and I got to say I think Goku will have to get a power boost. Besides, Akira confirmed that Super Saiyan Blue wasn’t the last new form for Goku.)

Pre-requesites:
To make this possible, we need to establish some things first :

For all intents and purposes, the DBZ verse is at least as big as ours. I always found the contrary rather stupid, especially since the « evidence » saying otherwise were quite literally all concept arts. First argument that came in was, that the Universe was only 4-5 galaxies wide, due to North Kai stating his supervision of the Northern Galaxy. An easy remedial to this is simply to realise that the galaxies in DBZ are much bigger than ours.

Dragon Ball Super retconned anyway any sign of a galaxy-wide universe when introducing the Dragon God Zarama. When summoning him, he grew so tall that galaxies were the size of his nostrils. You could argue that these are all separate universes, since the image of Whis explaining earlier on the fact that there are 12 universes was depicting those 12 universes represented by a galaxy. But then, why retcon in the same story from 12 universes to dozens ? This argument evidently makes no logical sense, and hence the DBZverse is as big as ours.

Argument 1 : Goku’s fight with Beerus puts him at Universal
Now this is the feat that started it all, and is the source of every single Universal Goku debater argument. Let’s review together what happened.

In his SSG form, Goku was facing Beerus for the future of the Earth. If Beerus wasn’t entertained enough, then he would destroy the planet. Goku executed a ritual with 5 other Saiyans(Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Vegeta, and Pan, which is still in the womb) in order to achieve the SSG form. The fight between the Saiyan God and the God of Destruction took to new heights when they went into the upper atmosphere(not space, subject for a future debunk), and started clashing fists so hard that emitted waves of destruction that resonated throughout the Universe.

He clearly states that Goku is nullifying Beerus's power, not the power of the waves. All this feat provides us is that Goku produced as much energy as Beerus in that clash, nothing else.

As a result, the power of Goku at that point in time is nowhere near universal.

Argument 2 : Goku vs Hit
I surprisingly found no one arguing Goku became universal when achieving the Super Saiyan Blue form(either people believed he was already universal and that pushed him even further, either they didn’t and SSB was too small a power boost to grant universal power).

The Universal Goku claim came back in force after the Goku vs Hit fight during the Universe 6 arc. Here, it was revealed that the Kaioken was making it’s grand return in the series after it’s absence ever since the Namek arc. Goku put it to good use and combined it with his SSB form to achieve what people refer to as SSB x10(10 being the multiplification factor Goku used for his Kaioken, similarly to his first fight against Frieza on Namek, before using Kaioken x20). People immediately jumped the shark and claimed that this version of Goku was powerful enough for universe-busting(it’s believed as so on VS Battles wikia).

Using the previous argument debunk and some simple astrophysics, I will demonstrate how this is a horrible assumption. With the previous argument, we showed that Goku wasn’t universal when he fought againt Beerus. But then, what level is he ? The rest of the fight was really really ambiguous, and the only scale we have is from how ridicously overpowered Goku was when he was in his SSJ3 form during his first fight against Beerus on the North Kai’s planet. Most fairly educated guesses put SSG Goku at somewhere around Galaxy, scaling from SSJ3 Goku who is somewhere in the Multi-Solar system range(likely the short end).

Now, by applying all the power boosts Goku received, which include :
 * a year or two of training with Whis and the discovery of SSB.
 * three years equivalent of training in an improved version of the Room of Spirit and Time(or Hyperbolic Time chamber).
 * the Kaioken x10

Does Goku attain universal power ?

Sorry to break it to you, but even accounting the ridiculously large power boosts DBZ is famous for, this is impossible.

We proved earlier that for all intents and purposes, the DBZverse was at leat as big as ours. What does that entail ? It means that we can apply all the knowledge modern astrophysics has to DBZ. And I assure you, the results are quite disappointing for the Goku wankers.

Most people don’t seem to realise how big the Universe is, let alone the observable one.

What is the observable universe ? It refers to the whole portion of our Universe that we can see, in other words that light had the time to travel to us. Everything beyond is out of sight, because light didn’t have time to reach us yet due to it being so far away. And whatever universe you take, it’s big.

VERY big.

Even Goku, with all his power, can’t switch from galaxy to universal that fast. Now, if we are to believe the Daizenshuu(which I’m rather reluctant to, since it’s a guidebook, but it is the only source of scaling we have), the SSJ powerup multiplies the base power by 50. Now, how Goku describes SSB ? As a combination of the SSJ transformation and God ki. Meaning we can apply the same multipliers from SSJ to SSB. Combine that with Kaioken, and we have a 500x power boost.

Can Goku’s base(which should be somewhat equal or slightly superior to his SSB form from the Revival of F arc by now) multiplied by 500 equate the energy needed to destroy an universe ? No, no, a thousand times no.

A galaxy is just a tiny spec in the entirety of the universe.

A galaxy CLUSTER(which is composed of hundreds of galaxies) is a tiny spec in the universe. Goku’s base should be roughly able to destroy a few galaxies at a time, and that power multiplied by 500 should be able to destroy a galaxy cluster. AT BEST. That’s as far as Goku goes as of now, and people seriously need to revise their physics class.

500 times a few galaxies doesn’t equate a universe.

5000 doesn’t.

Not even 5 billion does.

Conclusion
Any claims of Goku being universal are ludicrous, and loosely based on claims blown out of proportion. This is a classic case of hype obscuring people’s minds.

I hope that this first episode entertained you, and you’ll look forward for other episodes !

Next time on The Debunk Show!: need to concert with Friendly on what to debate first.