Talk:Bowser Jr. VS Metal Sonic/@comment-27921095-20170407195911/@comment-32507967-20170713170558

Official Mario canon are confirmed to be the main series games (From Donkey Kong/Mario Bros. to Super Mario 3D World so far) and everything else is questionably canon. Some of the other things, like the comics and shows, are confirmed non-canon.

Bowser has been hurt by Goombas and other minor enemies in many games, including Super Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story, and Paper Mario: TTYD, and, well, pretty much every other game that he's playable in. That doesn't really matter that much, true (I mean, mere spikes hurt Kirby, and he's taken planet-level explosions like nothing) but I just stating that you can't claim that certain characters are more powerful than others or can even scale to others just because they can hurt them. A goomba is nowhere close to as powerful as Bowser is, but it can still hurt him, so it's unreasonable to say the Bowser Jr. is just as strong as his dad simply because he can do the same thing a goomba can.

Who says it was going at such low speeds, you ask? Um, logic? Mario was staring at it, it flew away, and it took four seconds for it to reach out of his line of sight. For a normal man, that's 30 miles, if the line of sight in uninterrupted (like in space). But even if Mario's eyesight were 100x better than a normal man's, then, according to logic, the pod must have moved 3000 miles away in four seconds. If it were moving at speeds like the original psoter claimed, Mario shouldn't ahve been able to see the escape at all, much less have it take four seconds. And what evidence do you have for saying that Bowser Jr. controls how fast it goes? The best we can ssume for him is that he can give it a general sense of where to go, and that's assuming that it wasn't preprogrammed to travel back to Bowser's Kingdom, which, you know, escape pods usually are. Preprogrammed to go to a certain location, I mean. And even if we say Bowser Jr. can control how fast it goes (which, considering his clear lack of phsychic abilities, is still absurdly unlikely). How does that make it FTL speeds? A Train Conductor controls how afst the train goes. Does that mean a train can go at FTL speeds? A machine can only travel as fast as it was made to travel, and considering that it was an escape pod that was literally smoking from the strain it was under, I'm pretty sure it was moving as fast as it could.

When have they ever outrun lasers? They have dodged them, certainly (the Mario Bros. reaction speeds were never in debate as being FTL), but I can't recall them ever moving at speeds faster than lasers. But even if they did, that still proves very little. Many objects that move at certain speeds in our world move at far lower or higher speeds in other, fictional worlds. Lasers are a huge offender in this regard - many Star Wars characters can dodge lasers. Does that mean they can move faster than light? In the Dragon Ball manga, Kid Goku is up, dodging, and running past lasers no problem, and then was later trained to be as fast as lightning (224,000 mph), which he previously thought was unachievable. We can't pinpoint a character as faster than light because they can outrun a laser, when so many other worlds have normal humans dodging them with ease. And Mario and Luigi did NOT run across the equator in one of the games. Mario was shot out of a cannon in Mario & Luigi: Dream Team that sent him around the world in around ten to twenty seconds, and was capable of reaction to objects while moving at those speeds. That's impressive, but nowehere near as impressive as youa pparantly believe. Even if he could run that fast, that certainly wouldn't be FTL. Heck, even if it only took him a quarter of a second to go around the world, he'd still be going at speeds less than 70% that of light. As for Mario Party Advance's gameplay mechanics, have you...ever actually played that game? I didn't think so. Mario Party Advance is not like any of the other games - it's a story-based partial adventure game for kids, and the feat I was referring to was when Mario was literally running a race (in a story event, I may add) that had its distance measured out. At his fastest, comparing the distance and the time it took him to reach it, he was moving at 12 MPH. I'm not saying that's how fast Mario can normally move - as I stated before, he's certainly supersonic, at least, but it shows how unreliable sidegames can be in the Mario world when it comes to feats, especially the Mario Party series, which was a big part of the original author's "evidence" that Bowser Jr. was MSS+. Finally, just because Yoshi and Kamek move at hypersonic speeds does not mean that Mario and crew do. They very well might, but Yoshi is canonically stated to be faster than Mario, and Kamek is canonically stated to be one of the few characters in the Mario world able to keep up with him.

TL;DR: Mario does have canon, and things outside of it can be unreliable. Bowser has been hurt by pathetic things, though he can survive a lot, so it's unreasonable to say hurting Bowser makes you as strong as him. There is nothing that says the escape pod was even physically capable of reaching speeds FTL. Mario and Luigi's FTL feats are questionable, at best, and most are easily disproven, though it has been made clear on multiple occaisons that they can REACT to objects going that fast. And just because one cahracter moves at a certain speeds doesn't mean they all do. Do not Power Scale or Calc Stack; unless it's Dragon Ball Z, you'll always end up overshooting.