Talk:Bass Vs Metal Sonic/@comment-33067344-20180120203849/@comment-32617116-20180315232716

We have an actually good camera shot of Little Planet though. I've already shown it multiple times, it's in Sylvania Castle Zone. We see a clear shot of how far Little Planet is up in space in Sonic 4. It's not the distance of Mars, it's shown very clearly to be closer than that.

The only "bad camera shot" in this entire thing has been the opening cutscene where Metal flies to the planet from Little Planet, because we do not see both planets on screen at once and it's from this weird semi-side view. It's almost impossible to gauge. Again, I'm not it's truly bad camera shots, I'm not saying the camera glitches in to the model of Little Planet and it skips 24 frames like this is Sonic 06 and not Sonic 4, I'm saying it's bad in the sense of trying to find a distance from it, which is again almost impossible to gauge. But you want to know a clear camera shot from Sonic 4 showing Little Planet's distance from the planet? In Sylvania Castle Zone. It's in Sylvania. Castle. Zone. We see the view of it from the planet and it is indeed out in space like before, but this time we see the distance it is from the planet. It is not 54.6 million kilometers away from Earth, it is around Apogee. The opening cutscene had bad camera shots, while Sylvania Castle Zone had good camera shots of Little Planet. I never said Sylvania Castle Zone had bad camera shots as well but still used it for some reason.

You know, I would totally agree with Little Planet scaling to the closest planet to Earth in terms of distance if we never saw how close Little Planet is. But we do, it's flat out shown in the game. No, not in the cutscene (which is only bad in a VS debating sense), again, in Sylvania Castle Zone. The correct estimate for this situation would be Apogee, because it's shown to be nowhere close to where Mars is, way more so the distance of Apogee. If in Dragon Ball Super it was shown the universe was only 87 stars in length then heck no we wouldn't say we should just estimate it to be the size of our universe, we would say it's 87 stars in length and Whis would be nowhere near quadrillions of times FTL. We wouldn't assume it was the size of our universe because it's clearly shown otherwise. We wouldn't say Little Planet is the distance of Mars just because it's a planet, that's an association fallacy because we've seen otherwise in a clear shot in the game.

"I'm pretty sure that most characters in the Sonic universe would be aware of camera shots because they're in their own universe. It's like saying the bad camera shots of a tv show are canon."

Where does this fit anywhere? They're aware of camera shots? They're not camera shots from their perspective, it's just their view. The only camera shots mentioned from Sonic 4 have been 1. The opening cutscene with Metal Sonic flying to Sonic's world and 2. Sylvania Castle Zone. How does them being aware of the views of Little Planet change anything? Heck, we already know the view Sonic saw in Sylvania Castle Zone, because the same view was shown right to us, that view being the one showing Little Planet is no where near Mars. And in the opening cutscene...we don't see the view like Metal Sonic, so are you saying that since Metal Sonic DOES see the distance then that proves that it's farther than around Apogee? Well, unless Metal Sonic does something that tells/shows the viewers the distance, we see the distance Metal Sonic sees as well, then I don't see how that proves anything at all. All this is looking like is a burden of proof fallacy. And if none of this was your point, then your original statement was clearly too vague.

"which do not affect the storyline in anyway and are thus non-canon."

I agree that bad camera shots are unusable, but not because they're non-canon, it's because they're unquantifiable as they've already said. That's not how canon works. Just because they don't affect the storyline doesn't mean they're non-canon. The camera shots from the opening cutscene are an official part of Sonic 4. They have never been declared non-canon. It doesn't contradict anything pre-established (Using the consistency with other planets point isn't necessarily true because in Sonic CD it was already established close to the planet and just because the planet is closer than other planets doesn't mean that it is a direct contradictment, it is just a new concept introduced in the series. That's a fallacy of composition.), so I don't see how it's non-canon. Just because it doesn't directly influence the plot doesn't mean it never happened. It's still an established part of an official product's universe that has never been stated to be non-canon by official sources.