Talk:Jiren vs Superman/@comment-1759346-20190407010341/@comment-37960362-20191103153404

inb4 late reply

>"*let's figure out which Superman would be "fair" to use for a fight and by "fair" I mean which one could I reasonably argue would lose to [insert the character I would like to win here] "

Yeah no. People use certain versions of Superman to actually make for a fair fight, they aren't always trying to make the Dragon Ball Character win, there are certain matches where they do win, even if you disagree.

>"*There is much debate to be had on the "void" being "infinite" but I'm far from convinced that it actually was; it's like hyperbole doesn't exist as far as arguments that vindicate the strength of Dragonball Super characters are concerned"

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/deathbattlefanon/images/8/82/Main-qimg-443d69859490bfdad91c9c89f6ad4759.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20190211110735

>"*Same deal with "Goku almost broke the universe in an extremely specific circumstance that never came up again and contradicts everything we see later in Super, but hey, Elder Kai the WISEST AND MOST TRUSTWORTHY CHARACTER IN DRAGONBALL WHO IS NEVER WRONG ABOUT ANYTHING confirmed it so CLEARLY everyone who can match or beat Goku can do that too.""

The Elder Kai wasn't the only one who stated that they were about to destroy the universe, [//vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AKM_sama/Dragon_Ball_Super:_Battle_of_Gods?file=1SDEB1.png the narrator did so as well.]

>"At least back in the pre-Super days people who said "Goku is 100 times stronger than he was when Freeza could blow up a planet so Super Saiyan 4 Goku could blow up the universe!" were mocked."

Ah yes, the good old days where people were mocked for their opinions, amirite?

>"But here we are:

*Goku and Beerus almost broke the universe"

They did almost destroy the universe, again, it has been confirmed by the narrator. ([//vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AKM_sama/Dragon_Ball_Super:_Battle_of_Gods This] explains everything.)

>"*In SSB Kaioken if we think about the multiplier which was confirmed to exist by uuhhhh well it exists because I say so - Goku must be able to break several universes"

Kaioken x20 does logically multiply Goku's power twenty times.

>"*Ah but he can't beat Jiren or Goku Black, so they must be able to break universes HARDER"

That does make sense though? If a certain character is able to destroy the universe and gets bested by another character, then said character can logically destroy universes on a larger scale.

>"*Jiren can no-sell a time stop, so Goku must be somewhat capable of that"

Hit's Time-Skip takes time to where there is none and stores it to create a parallel universe. Jiren was able to move where no time was present and he broke through such an attack with mere movements and Goku was able to keep up with him, so he does scale to this.

>"*Jiren beat UI and someone vaguely stated he "shook an infinite realm" so he must be unbeatable!"

No one calls him unbeatable because of that.

>"*Mastered UI let Goku mollywhop Jiren so he must be able to break ALL THE UNIVERSES"

Again, no one says that Goku is capable of """""breaking all the universes""""".