Talk:Asriel Dreemurr vs Bill Cipher/@comment-31200947-20170215083801

I did my analysis, I saw the work of other people and after reconsidering everything I have to disagree with the popular opinion with Asriel winning this. Is more, I am 100% sure that Bill wins this and here's why:

I would like to clarify from the beginning that none of them are Omniscient. Asriel knew the thought of the monsters that he absorbed but he did not know who he was fighting until the end therefore is impossible for him be omniscient. There is also no evidence or suggestion in Undertale that "the power of a god" has to give that kind of powers and abilities (what we know is that it gives infinite power). With Bill something similar happens, needing data and confusing others, but people believe that he is Omniscient based on a couple of things he says like; "I know a lot of things, LOT OF THINGS... " and "I see EVERYTHING!" (And they hurt his eye at that moment) However even considering all this as true, this is still not being Omniscient which literally means "Having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; Realizing all things." Neither Asriel nor Bill comes close to this. Is the quality of God and other gods but it depends which gods have it or not and the only way to know it is if they seriously indicate having it or not and Untertale and GF did not indicate it.

Experience

Discuss experience is unnecessary. Asriel lived much more than he looks, yeah, like a flower but he didn't live much with OP abilities (besides the SAVE / LOAD thing) in comparison Bill proves to have OP abilities even without being to his "maximum" (even control over the time before killing the Time Baby) but none of that matters because he lived for trillions of years (he is also presumed to be older than the Universe, but I didn't find solid evidence of that) and he dominated other realities / Universes for who knows how long, no matter how generous someone may be about how long Flowey lived, Bill has this advantage by far. ALSO thanks to "I'M BILL CIPHER! I know LOTS OF THINGS! ASK ME ANYTHING!" ( https://www.google.com.ar/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/gravityfalls/comments/315yoy/im_bill_cipher_i_know_lots_of_things_ask_me/ ) one of the things he responds is:“I CAN SEE A KALEIDOSCOPE OF TEMPORAL PROBABILITY WITH FLUCTUATING RANGE! I CAN ALSO SEE THAT THERE ARE INFINITE ALTERNATE VERSIONS OF ME IN INFINITE ALTERNATE DIMENSIONS ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION WITH INFINITE VARIATION!” Then... how much does his experience increase from being able to see endless versions of himself? ∞ or zero?

Intellect

Speaking of intellect... you can skip to the next category if you want. I definitely don't want to say that Asriel isn't clever or that Bill's intellect is at the level of everything he lived but everything Asriel did has no comparison with what Bill did. Flowey manipulated Papyrus, Bill manipulated the two most brilliant characters of GF (and others of average intellect). Flowey steals the human souls while no one is looking (twice), Bill travels through time to make a deal with someone and then manipulate Mabel to give him the dimentional fissure he needed. Asriel attacks only with physical damage (apart from paralyzing us) has a limited list of attacks and then only improve them, Bill always uses his powers in different ways (except for very rare occasions) and in very creative ways such as telekinesis, hypnotizing, multiplying, manipulating his body, manipulating the enemy's body, manipulating / stopping time or much more. Asriel is "defeated" because Frisk reminds him that being evil is bad, on the genocide route because he doesn't create his plan well, Bill is defeated because of his arrogance although this contradicts his Omniscience (yes, I know that I said that he is not, but only in the maximum sense of the word, on the sense of just "seeing everything" he is confirmed to have an "omniscient sight" https://www.google.com.ar/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/gravityfalls/comments/315yoy/im_bill_cipher_i_know_lots_of_things_ask_me ). Bill far surpasses Asriel in intellect (not as much as in experience).

Some believe that Asriel's final energy blast or the attack he use to eliminate his timeline would work to kill Bill but this is not true. His huge blast is not much different than the one Bill used against the Time Baby in his first attack, the difference being that Asriel uses it almost at the end of the battle. His Hyper Goner, the attack he use to destroy the timeline, has 3 problems: Before using it announces that he will destroy the timeline. Frisk manages to dodge part of the attack and survive it, even Asriel mentions that. (And the most important) Bill burned his own dimension so say that he say that he would survive an attack like that makes more sense than to say that Asriel would survive an attack like that, because Asriel was never in a situation like that. (Information given in "Dipper and Mabel and the Curse of the Time Pirates' Treasure!")

Other powers that supposedly also work with Bill are paralyzing him or absorbing his soul. When Asriel paralyzed Frisk he wasn't completely immobile, then as Bill has several methods to get rid of that would not really be a problem. Asriel only absorbs the souls of the monsters in the Underground, not the soul of Frisk and most importantly Napstablook could avoid it because the "closed the blinds" (of his house) then there is no doubt that Bill can avoid it, or counter it, or resist it or whatever it decides to do.

Attack = Maximum Attack

There are two statistics that Frisk has; Defense and attack, and these are also the statistics that you observe in the monsters that you fight, however we can decide to attack more weak than normal and the monsters can do the same either to not want to harm us, by arrogance or by whatever. "Attack" is more like "maximum attack".

∞ Defense ≠ being immune to absolutely everything

No matter Frisk's defense, it is always physical defense and he is vulnerable to non-physical situations such as: his soul being transformed into blue, green, violet, being teleported by Sans, his Karmic Retribution (or KARMA) and his "telekinesis" (possibly being manipulation of gravity) so by the time Bill decides to use a non-physical attack or use some kind of manipulation, Asriel would have no defense against that. Let's remember that Bill can make someone sleep in a snap of fingers, convert people into gold, transform people into objects, throw bubbles that could make someone crazy, stop someone with telekinesis, control matter, reality and time.

Better Prepared

When Gideon mentions Stan Lee Bill gets full of information, when he attacks the Baby Time he does it with the biggest blast he ever made, before his friends fight against the mystery shack Bill used his powers to make them giants, before he fight against the mystery shack he became giant and in the vision that he showed him to stanford, when he dominates the universe, he would become the size of a planet. All these changes are instantaneous so saying that Bill would not keep up would not make sense.

You will not believe this...

Bill would have no problem pretending to be good at completely fooling Asriel and winning. Just as he did it to fool Stanford when they first met. Bill is not Omniscient but can see everything included in our world (Thanks to I'M BILL CIPHER! I know LOTS OF THINGS! ASK ME ANYTHING!, Q."What is something you wish you hadn't seen?" A."YOU NAKED. BUT UNFORTUNATELY IT HAPPENED! CURSE MY OMNIPOTENT SIGHT!"), Bill saw Undertale's creating process and all the people who played it. But Undertale came out in 2015 and GF is about a summer in 2012 so Bill should not know anything about Asriel, right? Nope, the GF multiverse works at a different speed as the final episode came out on February 15, 2016 Bill has data up to that date(Q."What do you even do when we don't see you on the show?" A."JUST BECAUSE YOU ARENT SEEING ME DOESNT MEAN I CANT SEE YOU. "). Also some Undertale monsters suggest knowing that they are characters in a game (even if they didn't do that it would not change anything).

And for all that I think Bill would beat Asriel, I'm Argentino if my English in some parts is mediocre I'm sorry, as long as it's understood it's okay.