Talk:Usagi Tsukino vs Madoka Kaname/@comment-27789707-20160225145816/@comment-27789707-20160301043332

"You're not getting it. Even if they're both omnipresent, Madoka is multiversal. While it never explicitly showed those things happening, it was all due to what Madoka had done. Wouldn't have happened if Madoka hadn't made that wish and achieved that power."

You're not getting it. Madoka can do preciesly things to overcome Lambda Regeneration. Usagi has plenty of things that can kill Madoka, evne if she was Multiversal.....which she's never actuall shown.

"And actually, yes she did rewrite the universe. If you recall, it was thanks to the Incubators that the universe we know now came to existence. Without them, humans would still be living naked in caves. How did they evolve? Magical Girls, who would turn into witches, who would in turn fight Magical Girls, who would kill the witches. That was a concept and law that Kyubey had been using since humankind came to existence, and without a world of witches, that's a crucial part of Kyubey's original design lost."

I didn't knwo the evolution of humanity was a fundamental law of the universe. You ee what I'm saying? Show one universal law that is actually different post-Kami. It's not the absences of witches because Magical Girls would still turn into Witches if Madoka, AKA The Law of Cycles didn't go down to them and take them away.

"Which means that Madoka had to have done something in those universes."

Go to the Magical Girls and take away their grief. Yes she did, exactly as her wish was. You'll notice, that still means nothing in terms of multiversal power. Also again Composite Usagi is Multiversal+ Anyway.

"Oh, and rewriting a law does a lot for a universe. Especially since this is all witches. Past. Present. And future."

If only she reworte a law then.....you know....instead of just causes Witches to stop being born from Magical Girls' grief. Hell if she really could do that she could just make it so that Magical Girls didn't turn into witches if they felt grief, essentially keeping greif from ever affecting their Soul Gems.....or she could haev stopped entropy....you'll notice that's not something she does.

"....Becuse she's really good friends with Homrua she decided to take the long route and not simply BE where Homura is with her suppoed omnipresence but instead physically incarnated and took a while to travel to Homura.....what a great friend."

"That could just be chalked up to plot-induced stupidity, or just flat-out bad writing. It's something completely inconsistent with how Madoka's conceptual being had been up to that point and was mostly just done as a means of giving Homura that multiversal power."

So something that proves your baseless point wrong is just bad writing. Right.....Also Homura never got Multiversal Power as Madoka never did.

Their is clear evidence Madoka isn't omnipresent.

"Madoka isn't though. She exists in her own abstract plane,"

But is not omnipresent either in the physical realm or indeed even in that realm as I've seen no evidence for it



"but the concept of hope still exists within the Madoka multiverse."

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">And your point? Existence....is literally everywhere in Sailor Moon Multiverse...that doesn't mean Usagi is everywhere....it just means her power is. Likewise Madoka isn't everywhere, even if her power is.

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">"And since there are no more witches"

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Because Madoka goes to EACH MAGICAL GIRL individually to stop their Soul Gem from shadowing over with grief.

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">(remember, Madoka is also the concept of destroying witches),"

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">Provide Citation. Also Usagi in her third strongest form destoyed the most fundamental concept in Sailor Moon, the Primordial Void Chaos. "Hope" and "Destroying Witches" are alot less fundamental.

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">"that's even more evidence of a concept being an omnipresent force."

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">If by "even more" You mean, still none.

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">"Saying that the same should ring true for Usagi is being unfair. Because like you said, there hasn't been a multiverse that has been affected by Usagi being existence itself."

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;">My point was that Abstracts are not instrically omnipresent in fiction and that the same logic you were using to "prove" Madoka is omnipresent could be used to show Usagi is omnipresent. In reality, neither are, although Usagi is closer as her concept, Cosmos, is literally everywhere in Sailor Moon while Madoka's concept if quite limited...(From what I've seen she is merely the concept of the Law of Cycles, the thing that keeps Magical Girls from becoming Witches. Even if she was hope, she'd still be far more limited since that depends on Life) and because the Lambda Power is everywhere in the Sailor Moon existence, which is a multiverse.